Detroit - US Muslim Capital - Mourns Fadlallah, 'A Man of Peace'
Tammuz 29, 5770, 11 July 10 04:31
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
(Israelnationalnews.com)
Muslims in Detroit and adjacent Dearborn, Michigan, which is considered the “Islamic capital” of the United States, have mourned Hizbullah spiritual leader Sayyed Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah for six days and nights, since early last week.
One-third of the population of Dearborn is estimated to be Muslim, the largest proportion of Muslims in a city of its size outside of the Middle East. Although New York and California both host more Muslims, Michigan has the highest concentration of Muslims in the United States.
Fadlallah, 74, was considered a Muslim scholar, known for opposing "honor killings" of women, as well as promoting suicide attacks against Israelis as part of the Hizbullah “resistance.” He also mocked the Holocaust. The United States listed him as a supporter of terrorism and accused him of having given his blessings for the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Marine corps barracks in Beirut, where 241 soldiers were killed.
Imam Mohammed Elahi of the Islamic House of Wisdom in Dearborn Heights eulogized Fadlallah as a "man of peace, man of justice ... a man of anti-terrorism and anti-violence."
A joint memorial service on Sunday in Dearborn Heights was scheduled to feature Lebanon’s Ambassador to the United States, Antoine Chedid.
Muslim sources in the United States tried to show that he was against terrorism, noting that he condemned suicide attacks against civilians such as the Moscow subway bombings. No mention was made of his stated policy urging suicide attacks against Israeli civilians.
"His passing away affected literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people across the globe; his passing is the reason why people were sad, and I was among them of course, because of the great things he did to communities and his great knowledge and understanding with his moderate views on certain issues," said Imam Mustapha El-Turk of the Islamic Organization of North America in Warren, Michigan.
Local Muslims tried to stage an anti-terrorist protest earlier this year as a court hearing took place for Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Muslim terrorist accused of trying to blow up a Detroit-bound plane.
"This is people from all over southeast Michigan coming together and saying we're against terrorism. Our message is going to be louder than the message the terrorists have sent. The masses will be speaking," Majed Moughni said before the demonstration.
Twelve people showed up, according to The New York Times.
JAKARTA, July 12 (Bernama) -- Lawyers from 60 countries, including Indonesia, will gather in Istanbul, Turkey, from July 15-16, to prepare a legal suit against Israel for its attack on the Gaza-bound humanitarian flotilla on May 31, Antara news agency reported.
"There are a number of lawyers from 60 countries who will take legal steps to sue the attackers of Mavi Marmara," Mahendradatta, patron chief of the Indonesian Muslims' Lawyer Team (TPM) said here, Monday.
Mahendradatta said he would represent six Indonesians who became victims of the Israeli soldiers' attack, where two Indonesians namely Surya Fachrizal and Oktavianto were injured.
The lawyers, among others from Turkey, Britain and other European countries, will sue Israel in international legal forum as well as bilateral forums.
TPM, he said would consistently fight the Israeli arrogance.
Meanwhile, Jose Rizal Jurnalis, presidium chairman of MER-C (Medical Emergency Rescue - Committee) Indonesia hoped that the legal suit against Israel could be brought to the International Criminal Court (ICC).
CNN’s Larry King interviewed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about issues such as Palestine, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, and relations with Washington.
Beyond his main theme of the “need to bolster Israel’s security” vis-a-vis Iran’s potential nuclear threat and its “terrorist proxies” in Lebanon and Gaza, Netanyahu — following the political gifts he was given by the White House — called on Ramallah to sit in direct negotiations if they want any further steps on the status of Israel’s West Bank settlements. So, there will be no extension of the current moratorium on construction when it expires in late September.
The five parts of the 40-minute video are placed amidst the transcript:
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, a prime-time exclusive. Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the Palestinians.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL: I think it requires courage on the Palestinian side to say, hey, it’s over, no more war, no more bloodshed, we’re going to make a genuine peace with Israel.
KING: Peace talks.
NETANYAHU: President Abbas, the Palestinian president, meet me and let’s talk peace.
KING: And Israel’s bond with the United States.
NETANYAHU: We have both common values and unfortunately common enemies.
KING: Was his meeting with President Obama a turning point finally marking a thaw in an icy relationship? Benjamin Netanyahu for the hour is next on “Larry King Live.”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We only go back — well, almost 30 years. B.B., that’s his nickname, but I have to refer to him as Prime Minister Netanyahu because that’s formality here. Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister in New York, a city he knows very well, used to be ambassador to the U.N. Let’s get right to it. It’s good seeing you again, by the way.
NETANYAHU: Good to see you, Larry. You didn’t have to reveal how far back we go together.
KING: That’s right, you got a point. A few months ago, you went to the White House. It didn’t go too well. What changed yesterday?
>NETANYAHU: I think there’s an underlying relationship there that people don’t appreciate. We have our ups and downs. People focus on the downs and the downs are exaggerated and sometimes distorted. But there is ups and there’s a basic bedrock of identification, common values between Israel and the United States. The president gives it expression. I give it expression. And yesterday’s meeting gave it expression. I think there is a solidity of ties between Israel and the United States that the president of the United States and the prime minister of Israel reflect in their meeting
KING: No matter who holds the posts?
NETANYAHU: I think every prime minister, every president, has his own points, his own viewpoints, but there’s a common position of friendship and a basic alliance that is there, that really is continued by all leaders, whoever they are. That was definitely the case yesterday.
KING: Mr. Prime Minister, have there been times, though, since President Obama took office, where you felt that friendship or that tie weakened?
NETANYAHU: No, a lot of things that the public is not aware of that throughout the year and some that I’ve been in office, we’ve had continuous cooperation in the fields of security, in the fields of intelligence, in the fields of vital strategic importance to Israel and the United States. And that seems to go unnoticed or unremarked. People always focus on differences of views that we may have. They’re minor compared to the things that unite us.
We have — Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. America’s the world’s greatest democracy. We have both common values and, unfortunately, common enemies. The people who attack the United States and the Middle East attack Israel. The people that we are fighting are the people you are fighting. So there’s a great commonalty, a great cooperation that goes underneath the surface. And sometimes, I’m happy to say, it does come to the surface. It did yesterday. It really should be an indication of something that guides our relationship throughout.
KING: So there’s no time that you question President Obama’s commitment to your country?
NETANYAHU: No. And I think there’s no time that he questioned Israel’s unwavering commitment as a firm American ally. I would say there is no greater ally, no greater friend of the United States, than Israel. And there is no greater friend and no greater ally of Israel than the United States.
KING: There were those who were saying, though, in the past few months, until that meeting yesterday, the relationships were at the lowest they have been in 35 years. Do you buy that?
NETANYAHU: Look, no, I don’t. I think the support for Israel and the American people and the intertwining of interests and cooperation between our governments is increasing all the time. It’s obscured by the bumps on the road. But there’s no question that the road is going forward and going upwards, I have no doubt about that.
KING: All right, let’s get into some things. Mr. Prime Minister, you say that you want to have direct talks with the Palestinians. So when are you and President Abbas, the Palestinian Authority, going to sit down? When’s it going to happen? It’s so frustrating to the world —
NETANYAHU: That’s a very — that’s an excellent question that I’ve been asking for a year and a quarter, ever since I got into office. On day one that I got in, I said President Abbas, the Palestinian president, meet me and let’s talk peace.
And I use this forum today, on the “Larry King” show, to say, President Abbas, meet me, and let’s talk peace. We all have our grievances. We all have our, you know, our questions and things that we want answered. But the most important thing is to get together, sit down in a room and begin to negotiate peace. You cannot resolve a conflict, you cannot successfully complete a peace negotiation if you don’t start it.
And I say let’s start it right now, today, tomorrow, in Jerusalem, in Ramallah or anywhere else. I’m prepared to go to a warm city like New York or a cool city anywhere. Let’s get on with the business of talking peace and concluding the peace agreement.
KING: So, forgive me, what’s holding it up? He could watch this show. We did a show some years ago with Arafat, with Yitzhak Rabin and King Hussein of Jordan, a historic show. I was in Washington. The three of them were in their homelands. It was terrific. Why can’t — would you do that, if we had you and Abbas and we had the king of Jordan on? Could we do that now?
NETANYAHU: You’re on, Larry. From my point of view, immediately, no problem.
KING: All right. So if we worked on that, we could set it up? Because it’s — it’s frustrating — go ahead.
NETANYAHU: Well, I’m just saying that you’re hitting the nail right on the head. I mean, what is there to prevent a meeting between the prime minister of Israel, in Jerusalem, and the president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, who’s 10 minutes away in Ramallah, that’s when you have traffic. Without traffic, it’s seven minutes.
I really like and respect Senator George Mitchell, President Obama’s envoy to the Middle East. But I find it perplexing and unnecessary that president — that Senator Mitchell has to travel halfway across the world to relay messages between President Abbas and myself. There’s no need for that. We should sit down. We have very serious issues to discuss. Our security, the question of where the borders will end up, the question of settlements, the question of Palestinian refugees, the question of water. All these things are crucially important.
The only way that they’re going to be resolved is if we actually sit down and negotiate a peace. I think leaders have to do exactly that. I think we have to break molds, break stereotypes, and cut right through to a solution. I’m prepared to do it. I’m prepared to lead. And I hope that President Abbas hears my call, responds to it. I think we’ll have important and steady help from President Obama. But there is no substitute for the two leaders. The leader of Israel and the leader of the Palestinian Authority, to get down together, talk peace and make peace.
KING: And we can kick it off on this show. We’ll be right back with Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister. Don’t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We’re back with Prime Minister Netanyahu. He is in New York. We’re in Los Angeles. What about the settlements issue? President Obama said yesterday he expected talks to begin before the moratorium on settlement construction expires which is late September. Will you extend the moratorium, by the way, if things aren’t settled by late September?
NETANYAHU: Larry, the whole settlement issue was supposed to be discussed in the final peace — what are called final status peace negotiations, which means how to achieve a final peace. This is one of the issues we have to resolve.
Seven months ago, I did something quite extraordinary, that is, no other prime minister in Israel’s history did this. I put on a temporary freeze of 10 months of new construction in the settlements in order to encourage the Palestinians to get into the peace talks. Seven months have passed by. They don’t come in. They say, oh, we need now, another extension. And the answer is, right now, listen, we don’t need any pretext and preconditions. Let’s just get into the talks.
And one of the things we’ll discuss, right away, is issues of settlements. And that’s what I propose doing. In any case, what is important is to get down and talk. That’s the important thing.
KING: President Clinton once said to me that the difficulties in the Middle East are harder to solve than Ireland/England. That it’s so deep rooted and so frustrating. Can you explain to a waiting world why you can’t get together?
NETANYAHU: I can, and I’m offering to do exactly that. I think there’s been a persistent refusal in many Arab quarters to recognize the state of Israel borders. I think the issue of borders is important. It’s related to our security. But the issue of recognition, the basic recognition of the Jewish state that exists in the Middle East, that is the homeland of the Jewish people, that lives in peace and security with its neighbors, is something that is recognized by some.
We made peace with Egypt. We made peace with Jordan. I think it’s important to make peace with the Palestinians. And I’m prepared to negotiate that peace right away. I think it requires courage on the Palestinian side for all those who don’t really want a peace with Israel, to stand up and do what president — the late president of Egypt, Anwar Sadat did, and to say, hey, it’s over, no more war, no more bloodshed. We’re going to make a genuine peace with Israel. I’m prepared to have a demilitarized Palestinian state live next to the Jewish state of Israel.
I think the Palestinians should not be either subject of Israel or citizens of Israel. They should have their own independent country. And we should be assured that this country is not used as a staging ground for Iranian-sponsored terrorist attacks on us. And I think this combination of state for the Palestinians and security for Israel is something that can be brought about in direct negotiations that I propose to start without any preconditions, without any pretext.
KING: Right.
NETANYAHU: Leaders don’t need excuses. They just have to get on with it and I’m prepared to get on with it.
KING: Do you — you absolutely favor a Palestinian state though, right?
NETANYAHU: I do. And I want to make sure that it — that we don’t have a repeat of what happened in the other two times that we vacated territory. You know, we left Lebanon, every last square inch of it. And Iran came in and used it as a staging ground to launch 6,000 rockets on Israel’s cities, 6,000.
We left Gaza, last square inch, and Iran used it to arm its proxies and fired another 6,000 rockets. So we can’t afford that happening a third time. Now, when I say that, Larry, you can now reach one of two conclusions. Either don’t make any peace attempt or ensure that the peace you do make has the necessary security arrangements on the ground to prevent this from happening a third time. That’s what I propose to do. And I think it’s possible to fashion a secure peace for Israel and a dignified peace and a dignified life for the Palestinians. I discussed this at some length yesterday with President Obama. And I’m very happy with the progress of those talks.
KING: All right. But Abbas isn’t the only leader we have to concern ourselves with. Would you sit down with Hamas?
NETANYAHU: I’ll sit down with anyone who will recognize my existence. Somebody who calls for our destruction, my destruction, is unfortunately not a partner for peace.
KING: So you would not sit down –
NETANYAHU: — Hamas that calls — well, you know, would you sit down with somebody who said we want to destroy the United States? Now come and talk to us?
KING: Do you think they can — that can change at all? Do you think there’s some way — Secretary Mitchell, Senator Mitchell maybe somewhat in between can get a little tempering of the language? I mean, we’re trying for the same result here. Nobody gets killed hopefully.
NETANYAHU: I think in the case of Hamas, it’s basically a proxy, a terror proxy of Iran. Iran openly calls for our destruction. It denies the Holocaust. It sponsors terrorism everywhere. It brutalizes its own people. Hamas, by the way, does the same thing to the Palestinians in Gaza. They don’t really have a choice. They can’t really vote the Hamas out. They can’t decide their own fate.
But look at what is happening in the West Bank with our cooperation. You know, we removed — I removed hundreds of check points, hundreds of road blocks. And the Palestinian economy on the West Bank is just booming. I mean, there’s coffee shops, there’s shopping malls, there’s e-businesses, you name it. It’s growing at about 8 percent or 9 percent a year which isn’t bad these days.
And I’m very happy for that. And I want to add on to that a formal peace — peace with security and prosperity. Hamas is totally the other way around. They are — you know, they’re subjecting their own people to terrible things. And they’re using the territory to just stockpile weapons. I wish they — I wish they’d change, and I wish they’d accept the state of Israel. But as long as they call for our destruction, there’s not much we can do.
KING: We’ll be right back with the prime minister of Israel after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We’re back with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of the state of Israel. Your coalition, we know this, has some right wingers who don’t agree with the notion of a Palestinian state. You have some difficulties. There are always inner politics going on. Is there any way, a pragmatic way, to bring you and the Kadima together?
NETANYAHU: Well, I’ve called for a national unity I’ve formed one. I’ve formed Likud labor alliance. And I’m always happy to broaden it to people who want to serve the nation. You know, getting into the intricacies of Israeli politics would take a lot more of — even a long program of “Larry King.” It’s a subject of encyclopedic advantage.
KING: Back to the difficulties. In May, Israeli forces stormed a ship on a humanitarian mission to Gaza. Several Turkish activists were killed. I don’t know if you’ve — have you ever publicly said that you were wrong to do this?
NETANYAHU: Well, we were definitely sorry about the loss of life. But I’ll tell you what happened. First of all, why do we check ships that go to Gaza? Because we are concerned with the flow of — the possible flow of weaponry into Gaza. We’ve had, as I said, thousands of rockets fired on us.
I think that what people fail to recognize is that there were six ships. Five of them were totally peaceful and nothing of substance happened. Our navy checked these ships. And we didn’t have any incident. The sixth ship was very different. It had about 500 people on it, of which about 450 were peaceful people.
But several dozen were activists of a very radical group that had apparently amassed steel rods, knives, communication equipment. They boarded differently than the other passengers, the other 450 passengers, boarded in one port in Turkey. They went through security checks. These people boarded in another port in Istanbul. They didn’t go through any security checks. They had their own communication equipment. They had their own — their own steel pipes and things that they brought on board.
And when our Coast Guard effectively wanted to check this ship and make sure that it behaved the way the other five did, they were brutally attacked. You can see that in the films that were released. Our soldiers, our navy people were fighting for their lives.
What would you do if the Coast Guard boarded a ship and the Coast Guard was brutally attacked by people who were, you know, clubbing them, knifing them, taking weapons from them, shooting at them? What do you think would happen? How do you think the American people would respond?
KING: OK. But how do you repair the damage with a state you need to be friendly, Turkey?
NETANYAHU: Well, you’re quite right, that Turkey and Israel had an important relationship. Turkey’s a very important country in the Middle East. I think that the relationship began to deteriorate with the Turkish policy, a new policy, that basically veers away from the West and I think Israel — what has happened with Israel as a result of that policy and not its cause.
But nevertheless, I look for every opportunity to see if we can stop this deterioration and somehow get things back to normal or relatively normal. Last week, I authorized a meeting with one of my senior ministers and the Turkish foreign minister. They met in Zurich, in the airport.
I can’t tell you that something positive came out of it. But I want to feel, as prime minister of Israel, that I leave no stone unturned in the quest for — the quest for a broader peace, and the quest of good relations with our neighbors. And even though it may not succeed right now, we’ll keep trying.
KING: Will you meet with Turkish leaders?
NETANYAHU: Sure.
KING: We’ll take a break. We’ll be right back with more of the Israeli prime minister. Don’t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We’re very interested in your comments, Mr. Prime Minister, on the statements made by former American President Jimmy Carter. He called the incident with the ship, the attack on the ship, unprovoked and an illegal Israeli assault. He also says, there’s no way to realize a two-state solution, while, quote, “the people of Gaza remain isolated and deprived of basic human rights.” How do you respond to President Carter? NETANYAHU: Well, first of all, I think he’s wrong on the incident. I described to you what happened.
KING: All right.
NETANYAHU: We regret the loss of life, but we don’t apologize for our soldiers defending themselves. And I think that’s obvious. Secondly, I think the people of Gaza are, indeed, incarcerated by Hamas. Third, I removed all the civilian — civilian closure that we had. That is, the prevention of free flow of civilian goods, food, medicine, anything, toys. I actually changed a policy that I inherited from the previous government. And it put both civilian closure on Gaza and a security closure.
I said we really have to be clear about our policy. Our policy is that weapons and war-supporting material don’t go in. And everything else should go in. Food and everything else should go in. So I changed that policy. And I’m glad I did it, because I think there’s clarity and there’s common sense in it. I’m sorry that not everyone can see that. But I think fair minded people can see it and, in fact, do.
KING: Does it pain you personally to have a former president of the United States be so critical of your country?
NETANYAHU: Well, I’m sorry he thinks that. I think the majority — the overwhelming majority of Americans see things differently. I think — I think successful presidents, including this one, see things differently. And the important thing is to — is to be true to the facts.
The facts are that Israel was attacked from Gaza. The fact is that we had — that Iran sends weapons into Gaza so they’d be fired on us. The fact is that this regime, Hamas, is holding an Israeli soldier that they kidnapped for four years. Four years this soldier, Gilad Shalit, has not been allowed to see anyone. They don’t allow the Red Cross to visit him. This is a complete violation of international norms. I think if anything bears condemnation, it is this — this inhumane terrorist regime.
And I would hope that international condemnation is directed there. That’s where it belongs, and not against Israel, a struggling democracy, striving to live and to make peace with its neighbors. It should not be condemned. It should be encouraged to –
(CROSS TALK)
KING: Does it concern you, Mr. Prime Minister, that Israel’s image around the world is poor? You’re not in high regard at the U.N. You seem to be, from a public relations standpoint, pr standpoint, in trouble.
NETANYAHU: Well, that’s one of the reasons I’m appearing on “THE LARRY KING show.” There’s a difference between perception and reality. The reality is the people of Israel yearn for peace, pray for peace. We’ve not had a day’s peace, a day of complete peace, since the founding of the state in 1948. We know the cost of wars. There’s — many Israelis have suffered it. I’ve suffered it personally. I’ve lost a brother in the war between the wars known as terror. Many of my friends have lost direct relatives.
We know the loss of war. We know the sorrows of war. We know the blessings of peace. Yet, at the same time, we forged a peace agreement with Egypt. We forged a peace agreement with Jordan. And throughout these years, we built a robust economy. Israel is a beehive of creativity and innovation. The economy is growing. It’s one of the best performing economies in the developed world.
There’s a story there that doesn’t get told, both of our desire for peace, our sacrifices for peace, and our building of a better reality. And I can envision, if we had the kind of peace I envisioned with the Palestinians, we could see what we’re seeing now in the West Bank, this great prosperity envelop the entire region.
I think Israel could make a tremendous contribution to the well- being of its Arab neighbors. I think peace could bring for our children, my children and their children, something beyond their imagination. It could be a different life, a different reality. And I’m prepared to do it. I’m prepared to move and lead my people to that peace. I need a partner on the other side.
KING: When we come back, we’ll talk about Iran with the president — with the prime minister of Israel, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Mr. prime minister, Iran, how much — the word fear apply — how much do you fear their intentions? Do you — do you — what’s the worst-case scenario to you?
NETANYAHU: Well, we’ve learned in history and in Jewish history to take seriously those who call for our extermination. A lot of people in the past century, the 20th century, didn’t take such calls seriously. And we know the awful price that was paid by the Jewish people and later by rest of humanity for not taking seriously these kinds of statements. The fact that after the Holocaust, a sovereign government at once denies the Holocaust and calls for the destruction of the Jewish state is just outrageous.
Do we take it seriously? Absolutely, we take it seriously. We also know that Israel was founded to defend the Jewish people. So we reserve always the right to defend ourselves.
KING: If you determined that they had nuclear capability, would you attack Iran?
NETANYAHU: You know, I’ve taken note of President Obama’s statement that he’s determined to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. I see that sanctions have been adopted, modest sanctions at the U.N. But more robust sanctions recently by the Congress was signed by the president the other day. I hope the other nations follow America’s lead in this. Will it be enough to stop the Iranian nuclear program? I can’t tell you, Larry. I do tell you that the president has said that all options are on the table. And I do tell you that Israel always reserves the right to defend itself. That’s the purpose for which it was founded, to defend Jewish lives.
KING: Assuming — Israel has never said it has nuclear weapons, but the world thinks it does. Why is it OK for Israel to have nuclear weapons and Iran not to have nuclear weapons? Hypothetically, if Israel has them, why is it OK for them to have them and the other not?
NETANYAHU: Well, we said we wouldn’t be the first to introduce these weapons into the Middle East. But equally, we’re not threatening to destroy any country. We don’t seek the destruction of any country or any people. We don’t say that an entire people has to be wiped off the map of the Earth. We don’t have such intentions.
And I think all nuclear proliferation is bad. But some of it is a lot worse. It does make a difference whether Holland has nuclear weapons, or the Ayatollah regime that sponsored terrorism and calls for Israel’s destruction, whether it is nuclear weapons. And I think there’s a common understanding right now, something that I spoke about 16 years ago, 14 years — to be precise, 1996, when I was elected, 14 years ago. I spoke before the joint session of the U.S. Congress. I was just elected prime minister. And I said that the greatest threat facing humanity is that Iran would acquire nuclear weapons.
Some eyebrows were raised at the time. I can tell you, 14 years later, that most of the world’s leaders today agree with this. There is a question of the distance between understanding and effective action, and that is the ultimate test of leadership and history.
KING: Would you ban all nuclear weapons throughout the — the world — would you ban nuclear weaponry entirely?
NETANYAHU: Well, that’s beyond my scope. I mean, this is — this is a worthy cause, but it’s — it’s a very complicated issue. And I’m sure you realize that the most important thing is preventing the most dangerous weapons in the world from falling into the hands of the most dangerous regimes. And this is what we really are facing today. We’re facing the prospect that people who talk about destruction, who deny the Holocaust, who sponsor terrorism everywhere, who shoot their own citizens on the sidewalk — you know, they lie there.
Remember that young woman lying there, choking in her own blood. These people who have absolutely no inhibitions about the use of violence and brutality would acquire the weapons of mass terror, the ultimate mass terror weapons, which is atomic bombs. That’s a very, very dangerous development for all of us.
KING: Would there be any point — may sound ridiculous, but speaking is better than killing. Would there be any point for you to sit down with Ahmadinejad?
NETANYAHU: Well, if he wanted to change the policies of Iran. We used to have friendly relations with Iran. It actually recognized Israel. We had exchanges all the time. But, you know, tell me — when Ahmadinejad decides to recognize the state of Israel and seek peace with it, believe me, I’ll be there eagerly waiting. But I’m afraid I don’t see that. I see the very opposite.
KING: Some more moments. We have a couple segments left with the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu. Don’t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
KING: We’re back with Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel. So thankful to give us this hour tonight on “LARRY KING LIVE.” As we say, we go back a long way. What do you make of Iraq — no, no, well, I’m leaving “LARRY KING LIVE” in November. But I’m going to be around. We’re going to do specials. We’re going to come to the Middle East.
NETANYAHU: Oh, good. Good, I’ll — then I’ll entertain you again in Israel. It will be a good refresher.
KING: It will be my pleasure. Don’t forget, you committed, if we can get all three leaders on together, we’re going to do that show.
NETANYAHU: You can do it anytime. You have one.
KING: OK. Are you — well, I think we can get Jordan. If we get — we’re fine if we get Abbas. What do you make of what’s going to happen in Iraq? Will that hold together?
NETANYAHU: I hope so. I mean, we are — we are rooting for the success of the American effort and of the Iraqi effort to stabilize Iraq. It went through a very difficult period. We want to see a peaceful Middle East. We want to see a moderate Middle East. I think there’s a larger battle taking place between the forces of modernity and the forces of Medievalism. There’s no other word that I could use to describe this militancy that tries not merely to eradicate Israel, but to bring down any moderate government in the Arab world and in the Middle East.
In a way, there’s a — this is the first time in my lifetime that the — many of the Arab governments and Israel understand that there’s a great — a great foe that threatens all of us. And that is the basis of a broader understanding. I don’t think peace should be merely forged by common dangers. It should be forged also by the benefits, the blessings of peace, economic blessings, the human blessings of every sort. But today the context of the peace is made perhaps more likely and more possible because of this common enemy that threatens Israel and Arab countries alike.
KING: What’s — what about Hezbollah, Lebanon, that — four years since the war with Hezbollah and Lebanon. Are you still concerned about them?
NETANYAHU: Unfortunately, yes, because it is basically an Iranian terror proxy. Look, Lebanon was the Switzerland of the Middle East. It had — it’s a very beautiful country. It had robust economy. And Iran has moved its surrogates, Hezbollah, into Lebanon. It has piled weapons there. They fire those weapons on Israel. They undermine any attempt at moderation, any movement towards peace.
We always hoped that Lebanon — we always said, we don’t know who the first country to make peace with Israel, which country that would be, but certainly Lebanon would be the second country. And, you know, it hasn’t happened, not because many Lebanese don’t want it, but because radical forces, pro-Iranian forces, like Hezbollah, are preventing it.
And so you have these two enclaves next to Israel, one in the south, Gaza, controlled by one proxy of Hezbollah, preventing the people there from making peace with Israel. And then another enclave in the north, in Lebanon, controlled by another Iranian proxy, Hezbollah, preventing the Lebanese from making peace with Israel, and threatening to throw the entire region into a maelstrom of violence and terror. That’s happened before. I hope it doesn’t happen again.
But Hezbollah and Hamas are basically Iranian surrogates. As long as Iran doesn’t want peace, they don’t want peace.
KING: Touch some other bases before you leave, as we have one segment to go. You’ve invited President Obama to to visit Israel. What has he said?
NETANYAHU: Well, you know, he’ll decide the appropriate time. But I have to tell you that we had a very, very, very productive conversation. And I think that when we have a chance to sit, as we do, one on one, I think it’s very, very productive for Israel, for the United States and for the quest for peace.
KING: We’ll be back with our remaining moments with the prime minister after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Couple of other things, Mr. prime minister. How would you describe the relationship of your country with Secretary of State Clinton? And how do you measure her work in the peace process?
NETANYAHU: I greatly respect Secretary Clinton. You know, I worked with her husband, Bill. I got to know Hillary on her visits to Israel. She’s always a welcomed guest. I think she’s knowledgeable. I think Secretary Clinton was a very wise choice on the part of President Obama. And we’ll be happy to work with her if the president so designates, and he often does.
KING: There’s some video getting a lot of attention on the web, supposedly of Israeli soldiers dancing while on patrol in Hebron. What do you know of that?
NETANYAHU: I don’t know. I hear it for the first time.
KING: So do I. They gave me a note here and said it’s on the web.
NETANYAHU: I don’t know. If you talk to me — if you want to invite me again, I will be able to respond to it.
KING: We’ll invite you any time. Are you ever able — you’re prime minister of Israel. A previous prime minister was assassinated. You live in the center of a hostile world. Are you ever able to really relax?
NETANYAHU: Yeah. You know, yes. And I’ll tell you when. Every Saturday, our Sabbath, we have a day off. It’s a very good idea that this institution was brought into the world. So I have a day off. And every Saturday, I take an hour and a half, and I read from the Bible with my younger boy. He has just won the National Bible Championship in Israel and he came third in the international. It’s like the big spelling bee, you know, huge.
I relax then. I draw a lot of spiritual strength. You know, I used to teach him. He is now 15. But in the last couple of years, he teaches me. So, yes, I draw enormous reservoirs of strength and I think that is needed for all leaders, but especially for the leaders of Israel.
KING: Four years ago, the former prime minister, Ariel Sharon, suffered a stroke. He is still alive. Do you ever go to see him? What is that story?
NETANYAHU: It’s a tragedy. Ariel Sharon was one of the great leaders of Israel. He’s, in my judgment, the greatest general that Israel has had in modern times. He has contributed a lot to the country. And, unfortunately, he suffered, as you say, the stroke. We can all pray that somehow he miraculously recovers. But that has not happened yet. But I think the people of Israel value his contributions. I certainly do.
KING: Earlier in the program, you mentioned that Hamas is still holding Gilad Shalit — I believe that’s the way you pronounce his name — the Israeli soldier they captured four years ago.
NETANYAHU: Yes.
KING: Any late word on any efforts?
NETANYAHU: Well, we’ve had a German mediator, very able man, trying to broker the release. I’m prepared to release 1,000 Palestinian prisoners for Gilad. But so far there’s not been an official response of Hamas to this offer that the mediator has made. I have accepted it. They have not. I can only hope that they change their mind.
KING: In our remaining moments, Mr. prime minister, do you think — how old are you now?
NETANYAHU: I’m 60 years old, Larry. And showing it.
KING: Do you think that in your lifetime, you will really see peace in your region?
NETANYAHU: I think it’s possible to achieve it, yes. Will we achieve it with the entire Middle East? That, I cannot say. Can we achieve it with the Palestinians? I say absolutely. I say that with conviction, because I think it’s a question of a rightness for our people’s perspective. There is already time. It’s now. I think for many Palestinians, the time is now. And I’m prepared to make that effort.
It requires a lot of courage. Maybe that’s the quality that supersedes all others. Because if you don’t have courage, everything else fails. But if you have it, then everything else is possible. We have the courage to make peace. And I hope — I fervently hope that our Palestinian neighbors have similar courage. With the help of the United States, I think it can be done, yeah. Absolutely.
KING: Thank you, Mr. prime minister. Have a safe trip home. We hope to see you again very soon.
NETANYAHU: Thank you. Come and visit us, Larry. Thank you.
KING: Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu.
I outlined my vision of a demilitarized Palestinian state that recognizes the Jewish State of Israel.
(Photo: GPO)
Address by PM Benjamin Netanyahu to the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, New York
Transcript:
I had a very good meeting with President Obama yesterday. We discussed those issues that formed the common bond between Israel and the United States. I'm speaking now in the city of New York. New York was bombed several years ago. There were reactions that were different throughout the Middle East. In many places there were celebrations. In Israel people wept. They grieved because we view ourselves as part of that same civilization that the United States of America represents - a free, pluralistic, democratic society. America has no better friend, no better ally than the State of Israel.
The President and I discussed Iran, and he reiterated his determination to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. We discussed the sanctions of the Security Council that formed an international consensus about the lack of legitimacy of Iran's pursuit to develop atomic bombs. That's important. Equally important were the sanctions that were signed by the President the other day - they have teeth. It's important that other countries follow suit with sanctions with teeth. That means that they bite into Iran's energy sector.
I cannot tell you that this will stop Iran's nuclear program. I think that it's important to understand however, that it must be stopped and I welcome the determination and the clarity that this issue that I've been talking about for fifteen years and it was the first thing that I discussed in my first term as Prime Minister before a joint session of the U.S. Congress. I said that there is no greater threat to humanity than the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Iran and today the greatest threat is still that the world's most dangerous regimes acquire the world's most dangerous weapons. This must not be allowed to happen. Iran must not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons.
We also discussed our quest for peace with the Palestinians. I outlined my vision of a demilitarized Palestinian state that recognizes the Jewish State of Israel. Now let me be clear about the elements of this vision. I said a demilitarized Palestinian state. First of all, we don't want to govern the Palestinians and we don't want them to be either our subjects or citizens of the country. But we also want to make sure that they have their own independent dignified life, but that they don't threaten the State of Israel.
Now this is not something that was fully clear when the peace process began in the Oslo Accords a decade and a half ago. This has been overshadowed by two events. And the first event is the rise of Iran and its proxies and the second event is the rise of missile warfare.
What we have learned in the intervening years is that territories that we have vacated for the sake of peace have been taken over by Iran's proxies and have been used as staging ground for terrorist attacks against us. We have put up fences to prevent the terrorists, the suicide bombers from getting into our areas. But Iran's proxies poured in rockets and missiles into these areas and flew over the fence and today the problem that we face is to make sure that this does not repeat itself.
Strike one was our withdrawal from Lebanon. Strike two was our withdrawal from Gaza. We cannot afford a strike three. We want to have peace with the Palestinians. We want to ensure that territories that we vacate as part of that peace do not get used as staging ground for rocket attacks against Israel. Because we're not dealing with the distant past, because we're dealing with twelve thousand rockets that were fired against us in recent years, this issue must be addressed and demilitarization means that we have not a piece of paper, but genuine security arrangements on the ground that can prevent this smuggling and penetration of territories that we vacate by Iranian weapons and by other means that are aimed to harm Israel's civilians.
So the need for security, robust security arrangements, is absolutely vital as part of this peace and I had a good opportunity yesterday to discuss this at some length with the President and we shall continue to discuss this because security is not the enemy of peace, it's the friend of peace. It makes peace possible. It makes a realistic peace take hold and endure in our part of the world which the President correctly called a very tough neighborhood.
The second pillar of a successful peace is the Palestinian recognition of the Jewish state. This means that Israel is the nation-state of the Jews. Jews can come to Israel, just as Palestinians can go to the Palestinian state. But Israel cannot solve the Palestinian problem within its borders. That has to be resolved outside Israel's borders. This is a point of consensus in Israel, but it must be a point of consensus among the Palestinians as well for peace to take hold.
I believe that in addition the Palestinians have to do something that they so far have not done. And that is to do what Anwar Sadat did - to come forward and say, “It's over. The conflict is over. There is no more war, there is no more bloodshed and there will be no more conflict.”
This second pillar of peace, the pillar of legitimacy, of an end to claims, an end to conflict, I think is as essential as the first, of security.
And the third is something that I think is happening anyway, and that is prosperity. We relieved or removed hundreds and hundreds of roadblocks, checkpoints and other barriers of movement and the Palestinian economy is prospering in the West Bank and that's good. I think we could do more. I intend to do more, but in the context of peace we could do a lot more - for security, legitimacy and prosperity.
All of this requires one thing, it requires negotiation. There are all sorts of impediments in negotiations that have been put up; all sorts of preconditions; all sorts of excuses. I suggest we do away with them. You either put up excuses or you lead. I proposed to lead. I want to enter direct talks with the Palestinian leadership now. I call on President Mahmoud Abbas to meet me in the coming days to begin peace talks so that we can have and fashion a final peace between Israel and its Palestinian neighbors.
So we have before us the twin challenges of preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons and advancing a secure and prosperous peace between Israel and the Palestinian people - something I think we can achieve.
I think we can defy the skeptics. I think there are a lot of doubters. There were a lot of doubters about Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat of Egypt and they forged a peace. There are a lot of stereotypes that govern the world's perception of leaders and yet it is when these stereotypes are broken, as in the case of Gorbachev and Reagan or Nixon in China, or Begin and Sadat. That's when history flows and it flows in a positive direction.
And this is a challenge I'm up to and I hope that President Abbas is up to and I know that President Obama looks forward to. It's something that can happen. It requires Palestinian leadership. It has Israeli leadership. I'm sure it has American leadership.
But today I want to talk about a third challenge that we face. It has been mentioned by the speakers before me and that is the battle for our legitimacy. When you look at the battle that is being waged against us, and its one that has intensified greatly over the last decade, it really has two main lines of attack. The first line of attack is conducted by our enemies, quite overtly, and that is the denial of the Jewish people's connection to the land of Israel.
The second line of attack unfortunately includes many who call themselves and consider themselves our friends. And this is the denial of our right to defend ourselves. Now, I know that one thing that unites all of us is that we all know that we are not foreign interlopers in the land of Israel.
I have a little display in my office. It was given to me by the Department of Antiquities. And I show it to every foreign dignitary who visit me. It's a signet ring, it's a seal, that was found next to where the present Western Wall is, the wall of the second Temple, but it predates the second Temple by about 700 years. It was found nearly 3000 years ago, in Jerusalem, and it has the name written in Hebrew of a Jewish official and the name is Netanyahu - Netanyahu ben Yoash, Netanyahu the son of Yoash. My first name, Benjamin, pre-dates that by about a thousand years to Benjamin the son of Jacob. They all roamed the same hills. So we have nearly a four thousand year connection to this land and the return of the Jewish people to Zion, the restoration of Jewish sovereignty in our ancestral homeland is not just one of the great events of modern times, it's one of the greatest events of all time.
I have visited Uganda twice at the kind invitation of the President of Uganda, but for the Jews, Zion is not Uganda. Jerusalem is not Kampala. Zion is only one place - Israel - and the connection between our people and the land of Israel is as strong as enduring as any people's connection to any place on earth.
The best thing that we can do fight the efforts to deny this connection is to educate ourselves and our children about our own history, and our own connection to this land. And I've been doing that with you, in two programs. One is our Heritage Program that we've launched to restore over one hundred sites in Israel: biblical sites and the sites of modern Zionism, and many other programs connected with public education, but also the Birthright and Masa programs which bring so many young Jews to Israel to acquaint them with our common heritage.
And I think we need to expand these programs because the best way to fight ignorance in others is to ensure that we ourselves are not ignorant. And I believe that that is gaining ground and I think we should invest in it - when I say invest, I actually put Israeli government money in programs to bring young Jews - we've done that. I began that as Prime Minister in my first term of office and we're continuing that now and, believe it or not, the Israeli economy can afford it. It's a very robust economy. And it's the best investment we can make.
As for the denial of our right to defend ourselves, I see a disturbing pattern. All responsible countries say that Israel has a right to defend itself, but virtually every time we seek to exercise that right, we are nearly universally condemned. In 2002, when we finally launched Operation Defensive Shield - this followed a year and a half of terror attacks and the bloodiest suicide attacks in Israel's history - after we did this operation, we were falsely condemned and falsely accused. We were condemned and falsely accused of massacres in Jenin and elsewhere. Time and fact cleared that up but this is how our defensive action was received.
In 2004, we put up a fence, a fence to prevent terrorist attacks and suicide bombers from crossing into our cities. And when we put up that fence to protect civilians from direct attacks, we were hauled before the International Court of Justice and we were told that we were doing something criminal and terrible.
In 2006, during the Second Lebanon War, we responded with precision attacks to the unprovoked murder and kidnapping of our soldiers and to rocket attacks on our northern cities, and we were accused of using disproportionate force.
And finally, in 2009, during Operation Cast Lead, when we finally responded after a year of, years really, of rocket fire on our southern cities by Hamas, we received the Goldstone Report.
I said finally but that's not true because it continues. One month ago when our soldiers boarded a ship to enforce a blockade designed to prevent weapons from going to Hamas and to defend themselves against a mob wielding knives and steel pipes, the whole world condemned us.
I was asked today by a journalist how we view this, and I said: "Well, how would you view it? Suppose a coastguard boarded a ship and the coastguard was beaten, clubbed and your people were put in danger of their lives and defended themselves, how would you feel?" And yet this analogy that people try to make about their own situation, so much of the world doesn't do. So much of the world supports Israel's right to defend itself in theory, but consistently condemns it in practice. And understand that a right that you cannot exercise eventually withers away. It is no right at all.
So it seems that, even after six decades, many around the world are still uncomfortable with the idea of Jewish sovereignty. Perhaps they have not internalized the fact that the Jews will no longer be passive victims of history. We are now actors on the stage of history. We now chart our own collective destiny and that requires Israel to have a secure and unchallenged right of self-defense that is accorded to other nations as well.
For 2000 years, the Jews were the perfect victims. And perfect victims may be perfectly moral but they're still victims. The purpose of the Jewish state is to defend Jewish lives. And in that defense, the standard that must be applied to Israel is not perfection but a standard that is applied to any other country faced with similar circumstances. What other country is faced with similar circumstances? What other country has suffered thousands and thousands of rockets rained on its cities?
Well, we only have one example: a country I admire deeply and that's Britain. And yet Israel's response to the rocketing of its cities is a fraction, a fraction, perhaps a percent or less of the response in terms of casualties inflicted by Britain on those who attacked it. I'm not in any way castigating Britain or the British government or its leader, Churchill. I'm a great admirer of them but I think that when people talk about standards, how do you judge the standard? Only by similar examples.
Israel took great pains to target the racketeers. It did not engage in wholesale carpet bombing. It tried to do everything in its power to prevent civilian casualties on the other side. These are not my words - they're actually the words of the British commander, the former British commander in Afghanistan who said them, General Richard Kemp, who said that never in the history of warfare, has any country gone to greater lengths than Israel to prevent civilian casualties on the other side.
So we have to ask when people say Israel has to conform to international standards, I say that international standards may take a page out of Israel's book. And I believe, I believe that speaking this truth, saying it the way it is, is one of the most important challenges that the friends of Israel have today.
We face three great challenges in the coming months: to ensure that everyone keeps focus on preventing a nuclear Iran, to redouble our efforts to find a path to peace with the Palestinians - to begin those peace negotiations as soon as possible - and to unite against any effort to challenge Israel's right to defend itself. I know that with the help of everyone here, we'll be able to meet all three challenges.
Friends of Israel, my friends, I thank you for your support for the Jewish state and the Jewish people. I salute your clarity. I applaud your courage. I know that we'll be able to count on you every step of the way. Thank you very, very much.
Malcom Hoenlein, Executive Vice-President: The Prime Minister agreed to answer two questions.
There were many questions - they dealt with Jerusalem, Israeli Arabs, but a number of them dealt with the direct talks and what you would expect the issues - the final-status issues and especially about Jerusalem, and second about your discussions with Ban Ki-moon and what your expectations are about the United Nations. And lastly, to the leaders of tomorrow, what's your advice to pro-Israel students on campuses to make a difference?
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: I think that the connection to the Jewish people of Jerusalem is part and parcel of our connection to our land, and I think it, you all know that there are Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem that under any peace plan will remain where they are as part of Israel. I don't think that is really contested and I think the last thing we should do is again pile on grievances and pre-conditions that prevent the joining of Israel's leadership and the Palestinian leadership to resolve the problems.
There are basically six problems - the first I discussed here and that is our security, the second is the question of borders, the third is the question of settlements, the fourth, no less important, the question of refugees, the fifth is the, the dominating problem of water that is not being discussed but water has one advantage over land - you can create more of it. We need desperately to create more water sources for our peoples and for the sake of peace. What did I leave out? Well, territories obviously. It will all have to be discussed and these things are intermeshed - they affect one another and they probably need to be resolved together in order to get a realistic solution.
Now, this is going to be a very, very tough negotiation but I'm prepared to engage in it. I cannot engage with somebody who doesn't come and sit down. I think there's something anomalous in the fact that I sit in Jerusalem, ten minutes away in Ramallah sits President Abbas and George Mitchell, who I respect greatly, has to shuttle back and forth from the other side of the earth to pass messages between us. This is not my idea of peace. My idea of peace is that we live next to one another and that we talk to each other to achieve peace - the sooner the better. Direct negotiations must start right away and I hope they will and I believe there's reason to think that they will very soon.
What would I say to the young supporters of Israel on the campuses? Well, I can tell you that I was a young supporter of Israel on a college campus 40 years ago - actually in 1973, I was studying at MIT and I went back to serve in the Yom Kippur War and when I came back, I slept for a week and then went up the steps of MIT and I saw a lot of stands in which anti-Israeli propaganda was being disseminated and I saw one stand in which supporters of Israel, Israeli students, were distributing material. And I went up to them and I said: "What are you doing?" And they said: "We're defending Israel against libel. Would you join us?" And I said I would. And I think that defense is no less important than the physical defense of the country. So what I would say to young Jews and non-Jews on college campuses today is: "Defend Israel against libel and defend the truth. The battle that we are fighting is a battle for truth. And that is perhaps the single most important things you can do today in your lives to advance the cause of Israel and to advance the cause of peace.
